#53 Parenting Challenges Solved: An Insight into the SNAP Program's Success - with Ron Swan and Debbie St-Martin
EPISODE 53
by Dianne Jimenez
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Parenting Challenges Solved: An Insight into the SNAP Program’s Success – with Ron Swan and Debbie St-Martin
In this episode, Dianne discusses with guest speakers Ron Swan and Debbie St-Martin from Centre Famille, Home to the SNAP Program, about overcoming parenting challenges, managing the behavior of children, effectively communicating within a family, and establishing organization and structure at home.
They explore the importance of empathy and understanding in parenting and the significance of teaching kids essential life skills. Featuring real-world examples and results from their SNAP Program, they emphasize the power of positive reinforcement, the need for consistency in parenting styles, and the indispensability of creative thinking.
Further, they examine how different parenting styles can work together for the benefit of children and touch upon maintaining a united front in front of children, compartmentalizing different aspects of life, and the value of prioritizing what matters most in family life.
The episode at a glance
[00:00] Excerpt
[00:40] Intro
[01:12] Hello & Welcome
[03:43] Interview with Ron Swan and Debbie St-Martin
[06:04] Understanding the SNAP Program
[08:30] The Three C’s of Parenting
[16:11] Navigating Different Parenting Styles
[20:39] Building Stronger Relationships with Children
[21:52] Handling Disagreements Between Parents
[24:27] The Struggles of Parenting After a Long Day
[25:18] The Art of Compartmentalization for Parents
[25:52] Communicating Your Needs to Your Children
[26:50] The Importance of Nonverbal Communication
[27:18] Parenting Multiple Children with Different Personalities: The Challenges and Joys
[29:46] The SNAP Program: A Proactive Approach to Parenting
[30:37] The Role of Facilitators in the SNAP Program
[31:13] The Power of Community in Parenting
[32:33] How to Join the SNAP Program
[34:04] The Impact of the SNAP Program on Families
[34:34] The Importance of Small Changes in Parenting
[37:04] The Challenges of Expanding the SNAP Program
[40:47] The Personal Impact of the SNAP Program
[43:19] Conclusion: The Future of the SNAP Program
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Excerpt
In some cases, they’re the more authoritarian parent. ‘You wait until this one gets home, your mom gets home, or your dad gets home ‘. So treading that line is difficult. But for the parent that doesn’t spend a lot of time with the children, they have to give way to the parent that does
Hello & Welcome
Hey there. Thank you so much for being here you’re listening to episode 53 of the parenting guide organizing habits made easy podcast.
So today’s episode is a very special one and a good one. I’m so excited for you to listen to it. And the reason why I chose these guys to interview is because I found that the way they help guide parents in parenting their kids and just creating a better family environment is so important and crucial for building a better world. This episode is huge and amazing. That’s what’s coming out of my thoughts right now.
So I can’t stress enough how important this interview is and I’m going to drop it right now, even before you listen to it, that if you have any kind of connections or something to help this program thrive and grow, please contact them because it’s going to make a big difference in our world. For sure.
Now I met Ron Swan and Debbie, St-Martin in a parenting program and I found from the get-go, what they had to say and how they were guiding us was kinda like music to my ears; because it’s exactly how, I parent and I just didn’t have the words of how to define it or to say it, you know? I know I mentioned it sometimes of like what I do at home and giving you some examples and guiding you too.
But the way this, the whole conversation came out and the way they were teaching us in this program I guess I felt validated. And I felt like, ‘yeah, okay. This is great! This is exactly aligned with what I’m trying to put out there to my audience.’ So I hope you find this episode, insightful, inspirational, and basically a resource to help you through your parenting journey. Because it’s not an easy one. It’s highly challenging. And it’s also very beautiful. And I love without giving too much away here.
Ron said something that spoke out to me really to my heart. And it was
Parenting is an opportunity, not just a responsibility.
Ron Swan
So, I hope that means something to you because it really something to me. I think it’s really important that parents know about this program.
Because I believe this program will definitely change (the) lives of families out there.
Interview with Ron Swan and Debbie St-Martin
So without further ado, here’s my interview with Debbie St-Martin and Ron Swan from Centre Famille.
Dianne
So thank you so much, Ron and Debbie for being with us, being with us, being with me and taking time out of your busy schedule for this interview. I really appreciate this so much because I believe your program is going to help our audience of parents and your expertise and your knowledge of all the years that you’ve had as parents and working with so many parents.
So this is going to be so good. I’m so excited. And I knew the first time I had that class with you guys, I was like, I got to get these guys on my podcast because they, whatever they have, it’s gold, golden, golden, golden. All right. So I want first to have you guys introduce yourselves Ron first or Debbie first, whoever. Tell us about yourself as parents and how you got to where you are right now.
Debbie St-Martin
I am the mother of three men I’m a stepmother of five children, a grandmother of 13, and great grandmother of one. I got involved with mental health in the community 30 odd years ago. And I liked the community aspect of working with people. Eventually I switched over and today I work with families of children between six and eleven that have behavioral problems. And I really like how we help families make a difference.
Ron Swan
My name is Ron Swan. I’m the executive director here at the Family Resource Center. I too have, well, I have 8 children of my own, 3 that are biological children and 5 from my partner that I live with now. As far as how I got here, celebrating my 40th year in the field this year. I started off at the West Montreal Readaptation Centre as a Behaviour Specialist, working in the group homes and with families in the External Services Department. I went on to do five years of teaching, two years at the elementary school level, and three years at the high school level. After that, I did two years an addictions counselor at Foster Pavilion in town, and I was fortunate enough in 2015 to, at the last minute, apply for a position as a facilitator in the newly acquired SNAP program here in Pierrefonds. And the rest is essentially his-tory.
Understanding the SNAP Program
Dianne
I love it. So tell us a little bit about the SNAP program, because I don’t think a lot of people know about it.
Ron Swan
Okay, the SNAP program is based with children between the ages of 6 and 11, 6 and 12, actually that have behavioral issues. When we sit with parents, we often tell the parents that we don’t deal with children that have behavioral issues. And that usually scares the heck out of most parents.
But the fact is what we do is not necessarily in regards to their behaviors, it’s more in regards to the way they think. And we know that changing the way children think makes them change their behaviors. However, because the children are between the ages of 6 and 12, we can’t exclusively work with the children. We have to work with the children’s most significant modeling situation, which of course is their parents.
So getting children to change the way they think always includes having to get parents to change the way they think. The program is called SNAP. It’s an acronym for Stop Now and Plan, or if you prefer in French, Stop, N’agis pas, Analyse et Planifie. It’s a very positively oriented program. It is based in CBT, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. For those of you who understand what that means, I don’t, but that’s okay. That being said, we work with changing the dynamics and routines in families.
Dianne
Love it. I love it. So not necessarily just helping the child, but involving the parents too, because we are their first teachers, right? So I absolutely love that. That’s so cool.
Ron Swan
First and most prolific teachers.
Dianne
Yes. Do you believe cause I hear this sometimes we’re like, “Oh, my kids are 18, they’re 21, they’re adults now I’m done teaching.” Do you, what are your thoughts on that?
Ron Swan
I would say that the day that you as a parent, stop teaching, is the day they put the first nail in. You’re there for a reason. The fact is that your experience, your life experience, your parenting experience obviously is more extensive than your children’s. And anything that you can do to help them at any stage of life is that much more important and that much, that much more needed.
Dianne
That got me when you said that, put a nail in it. I was just like, no, my heart just broke a little bit there. Okay, in the parenting program, I’m going to say a little bit of a nugget that you gave us parents and you talk about the three C’s in parenting. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
find out how families with 3+ kids tackle the beast: laundry!
The Three C’s of Parenting
Debbie St-Martin
Communication, Consistency, Creativity.
Dianne
Why is that so important?
Ron Swan
Okay you show me a family or a child that, a family that deals with a lack of creativity, or a lack of communication. I’ll show you a family in trouble, a family in need of assistance. Thus, we’re there. The fact is that the consistency with which a parent parents their child has a lot to do with how secure how comforted feels and a child can’t learn or live properly or appropriately if they lack those things.
So we refer to them as the pillars of parenting. Without a doubt, absolutely, and definitely necessary. Any parent will tell you that creativity is a big part of what they have to do as far as their children are concerned. Cause let’s face it, you don’t approach a child three or four, the same way you approach a child of 10 or 11 or 15 or 16 or 28, 30.
Uh, the fact is you have to be able to adapt to changing lifestyles, changing times, changing children. The fact is that as we grow, we change, they change, and we need to be able to be adaptable as far as that’s concerned. So creativity is an absolute. And as far as communication is concerned, Every parent, hopefully, has to communicate.
We tell parents during the program that, you know, 80 percent of communication is essentially done non verbally. Understanding that that is a necessity, gives parents the understanding that it’s not just what they say, it’s what they do. I grew up with the saying, ‘You do as I say, not as I do’. We quickly learned that that’s not a really positive way to parent, so communication is a necessity.
Dianne
Yeah, I kinda, I get where you’re coming from, cause that, grew up the same way with that mentality. My father was in the military. So there was a certain way, you know. I love that you’ve mentioned creativity, because I don’t think as parents, we even identify that. As being creative. To us, creative is like, ‘oh, I can draw well’, ‘I can paint’, and I, you know, ‘I do dances’ or whatever. But we don’t think that creativity plays a huge part in parenting because we’re constantly adapting to the moods, the changes, the likes, the interests, and the dislikes, you know, so we always have to be practically on our toes.
So I like that, you emphasize that a lot. Now, you mentioned consistency. This is like the, I get that all the time and it’s actually going to be my next question, which works into it really well. As parents what is your advice on ‘how do I get my kid to help out at home? And be consistent about it?’
Ron Swan
Okay, when you say help out at home, what do you refer to? Chores?
Dianne
Usually, yes, around that, chores, you know, just putting out the garbage, you know, helping out with supper or even, you know, helping their, their siblings sometimes like get me that diaper or something . Without the stomping and the eye rolling or something.
Ron Swan
I would say a big part of what you have to do as a parent is understand that the stomping and the eye rolling is one of those things that you don’t necessarily have to involve yourself with. Why do they do it? They do it to get your attention. So if they’re getting your attention when they do it, they’re going to continue doing it.
Parents often have to learn they don’t have to undertake every single battle. Show me a parent that undertakes battles, I’ll show you a parent that is unhappy and a child that is unhappier. Making your child understand that as a part of the family, they have a certain responsibility is something you do naturally. And the only way you can do it appropriately is to model that behavior for them. If you yourself are authoritarian, you know, we often say to parents during the program, you know, what happens to most dictators?
You don’t want to rule the roost by way of complete and total authority. Uh, you need to model appropriate behaviors for your children. Whether it be vocally, verbally, whether it be through consistency, and it’s definitely through creativity. So, applying all three of the C’s, as far as that’s concerned, is paramount to being successful or not in regards to getting your children to understand what is expected of them. But let’s face it, the reason we do that as parents isn’t just because we need it in the house. But our aim is to create, you know, independent, effective, constructive, positive individuals. That’s all necessary to start within the home.
Dianne
Absolutely. Wow. Very cool. I keep saying cool. I’m sorry. It’s almost like my go to word.
Ron Swan
Considering the weather coming up today…
Dianne
Thank you, Ron. Thank you. All right. So , consistency it’s, it’s really difficult and very challenging for many parents. Especially after a long day, tough day at work, just, you know, basically the day handing you your, your ASS, your ass, right? And then you’ve got the kids with the homework and if you have multiple kids, multiple homework, you know, with their emotions and everything.
So, it’s, super challenging to fit all of that: ‘Can you help out at home?’, ‘Can you do this and that’ with such a limited amount of time that we have in the evening, with supper, bedtime, activities, getting everybody going within a certain time frame. And, you know, trying to be calm so that they can sleep well and have a restful sleep. So how do we as parents, I don’t know with your advice as parents or with the parents that you see, how do we deal with that? How do we be consistent when we’re just mentally drained and overloaded and our tempers are like…(hand at the level of her head) Just there.
Ron Swan
First thing I’d say is, one of the things that parents seem to struggle with is setting priorities. And often in today’s society, setting priorities is based on keeping up with the Joneses. we tend to overlook things that we naturally feel are more important, but don’t necessarily prioritize.
And I mean, let’s face it, as parents, chances are our most precious commodity is our children. Making sure that we understand that we have to prioritize them can make the difference between, you know, a child growing up affectionately and comfortably and positively and constructively or not. So setting our priorities is a big part of how we can make sure that our children understand what’s important.
Dianne
Wow. And every family has different priorities. So when you’re talking about priorities, you’re mainly talking about the big picture of what we want our children to become later on?
Ron Swan
Mm hmm. you know, there’s an old saying that can’t see the forest from the trees. there’s another saying that some people can’t see the from the forest. And sometimes it’s very, very difficult to tread that very fine line. but understanding the things that are most to us is the way we’re supposed to set our priorities. So for parents looking at what is most important and what we want most is the way we’re going to dictate to our children.
So we need to understand that that’s, you know, that’s a the choices that we our children very significantly as their most prolific teachers. So we have to keep that in mind as far as our parenting responsibilities are concerned.
My Secret Sauce for setting the kids up for success
Navigating Different Parenting Styles
Dianne
So, I have a question about like, because you’re talking about the parent and the child, and you know, that’s fairly easy when you’re basically the parent who spends more time with the children. What if, maybe this is a two part question, what if there’s the other parent and they’re not necessarily understanding that portion of the way you parent? And what if you both have different parenting styles. Like how do we, how do parents navigate around that?
Ron Swan
It’s difficult. We’ve dealt with this on many occasions and often the parent that doesn’t spend a significant or the most significant amount of time with the children is often looked at as the Disney parent.
You know, the one who is there to make things happy and gay and, you know, playing all the time. In some cases, they’re the more authoritarian parent. ‘You wait until this one gets home, your mom gets home, or your dad gets home ‘. So treading that line is difficult. But for the parent that doesn’t spend a lot of time with the children, they have to give way to the parent that does.
And that’s also part of positive parenting. Understanding that if there’s one parent that spends the most time with the children, you have to find a way to fit yourself into that dynamic, and make it work more effectively.
Dianne
I love that. I think it’s so important to not break basically the consistency within the children and their teaching, the way they’re receiving information. I think it’s really important to not disrupt that as much as possible. So what do you think about the teachers teaching at school or at daycare and your routines at home? How do parents navigate that? The different styles and routines from school and then at home, like, what, what advice can you give to parents?
Debbie St-Martin
You’re going to turn that one on me?
Ron Swan
Okay, um, understanding that there are a whole bunch of different expectations for our children. As parents, we have expectations for them. When they go to school, their teachers have expectations of them. The daycare has expectations. The principal has expectations. How do we navigate that?
Well, as best as we can. Being as flexible as we possibly can, yet still understanding that there are lines that have to be drawn, is not easy. But then again, nobody ever told us that parenting going to be, If you look at parenting as an opportunity than a responsibility, it helps you to understand that your child has to find a way to navigate those things on their own.
During the program, we often say, use the old parable about how if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. A child growing up is a sponge, and getting them to understand the different expectations that not only you have, but that others have helps them to develop expectations own. So it’s a matter of guiding them, using the best as much as possible, trying to avoid the worst, but the fact is, you can’t avoid it all.
So dealing with negativity is a big teaching your child how to grow up constructively. So you have to be able to be flexible, you have to be able to be consistent, you have to be creative, and God knows you have to communicate a lot. And say as well as what you do.
Dianne
Wow! Amazing. And it almost sounds like so easy, but it’s…. (all laugh)
Debbie St-Martin
She’s funny.
Ron Swan
Yeah.
Dianne
But I, I, I so wholeheartedly agree and believe that I love that you said parenting is an opportunity and not a responsibility. It’s almost like ….
Ron Swan
…just the responsibility. Obviously there’s a responsibility in parenting, but if we look at it as solely a responsibility. In some cases, people look at it as more of a drudgery because it’s just a responsibility.
But let’s face it, we’re looking towards the future, people do. If you’re going to look towards the future, you first have to look at the ones that are living in your house, because it’s part of their existence as well. They’re the ones that are going to shape the future. So if that’s the case, it’s our responsibility to make sure they shape it appropriately.
Dianne
Yeah, I love it. I love, love, love everything you just said. And the whole ‘teach a man to fish’, that is exactly my thought process. That’s kind of like how I want to, I guess, with the kids and running my business and with my course that’s coming up. I believe that so much. Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay.
Building Stronger Relationships with Children
What would you recommend, like a habit for parents to help? I guess you covered it a little bit, but maybe dive into a little bit more detailed: what would you recommend for parents to help build stronger, closer relationships with their children?
Ron Swan
Listen. Often as parents, we see ourselves as adults, somewhat know it alls, you know, they’re just children. Uh, but the fact is they have opinions of their own, they have ways of doing things, that if we negate, we stifle their creativity, we stifle their imagination. That’s the last thing we want to do as parents.
We want to nourish their imagination. We want to give them the opportunity to expand their horizons. We want to make sure that they understand that, you know, two heads are better than one. . Three heads are better than two. Understanding that we are social creatures means that we need to be open to new ideas. And if that’s the case, that’s never more true than with parents.
Dianne
Yes, thank you for that.
Ron Swan
We’re guides, not dictators.
Dianne
Yes, absolutely. Just listening to you got me thinking about the listening part.
Handling Disagreements Between Parents
I find it’s a huge, and important role with you as a parent for the child. So what happens when there is a disagreement with your partner and you do disagree, it happens. How do we navigate out of that so as to not, like, confuse the child, scare the child or say, ‘Oh, mom and dad are nuts. So I’m not listening to anyone‘ or ‘You know what? Whatever mom’s been telling me, or dad or the prime parent that’s been with me all this time, I like what the other guy’s saying or the other person saying, ‘I want to go with that person‘ because they see the argument.
So, help what do we do?
Ron Swan
Well as we say in the program, you come into a relationship with their, your significant other as two individuals, The most effective parenting is the ones that are able to do this and become one set of parents. Fact is that that space between those two individuals is the gray zone. Or, children’s favorite play zone. And you want to make sure that you don’t give them the opportunity to push that zone much, much wider. Because then you end up polarizing parents. And let’s face it, as parents, you want to make sure that you put up a united front as far as your children are concerned.
They need to know that whether they go to mom or whether they go to dad, They’re going to get the same answer. Or at the very least, they’re going to get: ‘you know what? They’re ‘Let’s talk to mum‘, ‘let’s talk to dad‘ because the fact is you’re doing this in conjunction with the other individual. So a united front, very important.
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Dianne
I love that. I believe that. And that’s what we do at home too. So what happens if you don’t have the answer? Say the child comes to you and you’re like, Oh, we kind of had a disagreement in the background, like behind the scenes, or we’re not yet, we didn’t find a common, common ground yet.
So, when the child approaches you and saying, what are we doing with this? Or ‘what’s happening in here?’ You know, like, ‘are we going to do this?’ What would be the appropriate response at that point?
Ron Swan
Getting your child to understand that just because you’re an adult doesn’t mean that you’re infallible, is important. Getting your child to understand that you too learn every single day is even more important.
We don’t want our children growing up that we have all the answers because the fact is we don’t. And letting them know that we don’t is not only okay, it’s necessary. And showing them that when we don’t know that we’re willing to find out to do the work necessary to resolve that situation or to find that answer helps them to understand what is expected of them in the future.
The Struggles of Parenting After a Long Day
Dianne
So it’s, I’m listening to this and it’s like, makes sense, but now enter the parent who’s had a long, hard day, just got yelled at by so and so at work or not meeting their demands at work, and the reports are, you know, they got piles of paper that they have to, you know, go through. So, coming to that state of like, okay, we’re thinking together, we’re on the same page.
How do parents Go from, like, chaos, up here and all their environment before entering their house, to thinking clearly and calmly so that they’re, they’re able to be the best to their kids.
Ron Swan
Well, first of all, understanding that we’re human is pretty important. We’re not only just not infallible, you know, things affect us the same way they affect our children.
The Art of Compartmentalization for Parents
And I would say that a, lot of parents, are really good trick or tip, is to learn to compartmentalize. The ability to close off things in order to properly deal with others is important, especially in parenting. The fact is that we want to be able to understand or be in the moment with our child or be in the moment. Just the same way as when you’re at work and your boss gets you to do something and you have to focus completely on that, you have to do that with your child as well. It’s a matter of prioritization.
Communicating Your Needs to Your Children
Debbie St-Marie
It’s also very okay to say to your child when you’re coming home: ‘You know what? I need 15 minutes. I’ve had a bad day today. I need to calm down.‘ ‘I need to… either, you know, ‘...go change into something more comfortable, ‘...have a glass of wine. I just need some time to calm down.‘ It’s okay to tell them that because sometimes they come home from school all hyped up and they need that time to calm down as well.
Ron Swan
Although I would suggest if they come home and say they need a glass of wine, it might be a little early. (all laugh)
Dianne
Just a little early, a few years early. I love that. It’s really important. Like you said, it comes back to showing them the behavior, the appropriate behavior when in, when we’re in, like in a heightened state, Or we’re super angry or super frustrated, you’re showing them without telling them. So.…
Ron Swan
Actually by showing them, you are telling them.
Dianne
Right? I mean, like verbally, but
The Importance of Nonverbal Communication
Ron Swan
Yeah, but see, that’s the problem with a lot of parents is they figure, it’s more important what they say. In all actuality. If 80 percent of communication is nonverbal, it’s more important what you do, because your child is consistently watching you. Like I said, little sponge. And the way you deal with situations, a lot of the time, has a lot to do with the way they’re going to deal with situations. You know?
Parenting Multiple Children with Different Personalities: The Challenges and Joys
Dianne
Yes. Yes. so that brought me thinking now, because now we’re kind of saying child. What happens when we have multiple children? And when we started growing our family, we had one kid, then we had a second kid. And then, Oh, we have a third kid now. And a lot of, you know, friends and other couples were telling us like, are you crazy?
How are you going to deal with a third one? You know, like one parent will take one kid, you know, you have two eyes, you have two hands, or you have two parents. Like the third one is just going to kick you in the face. What do you do?
So how can you tell us, being parents of multiples. How do you deal with that, especially if they all have their own personalities, they all have their demands, they’re, you know, one or all three or five of them are heightened. Like, what do we do? It’s chaotic.
Ron Swan
Well, here’s a question. How many friends do you have?
Dianne
Well, Facebook says… (laughs)
Ron Swan
Yeah. You’re able to adapt accordingly to your friends. Is that something that you do consciously or is it something that you do unconsciously?
Dianne
Unconsciously.
Ron Swan
And why can’t you do that with your children?
Dianne
Hmmm…I get this.
Ron Swan
Exactly
Dianne
… almost like a different feeling because like, you know, your friends are your friends and then family’s like, okay, this is my, I produced this. I have to make it right.
Ron Swan
But the fact is You have to understand as a parent, like you said, they each have their own personality. They each have their own way of doing things. That’s great! You know, what variety is the spice of life. And the way you deal with one child may not be the same way you deal with the other. You’re still the same person, but you understand their differences as well as yours. Never more important than when you’re a parent. So understanding differences is part of being a parent.
And I often say it’s part of growing as a parent because that’s what we do. You know, we learn from them just as much as they learn from us.
Dianne
Yeah, so in the midst of the chaos, how do you prioritize? What do we deal with first?
Ron Swan
By prioritizing. Understanding what is most important that’s your priorities.
Dianne
I love it. Oh right, you talked about that.
Ron Swan
The fact is…
Dianne
is, so good
Ron Swan
… understanding what is most important is difficult, often, especially when you’re in the juice, you know what I mean?
The SNAP Program: A Proactive Approach to Parenting
Which is why the program at the Centre is more of a proactive approach, as opposed to a reactive approach. The fact is, if you are a consistently reactive parent, I feel so badly for you. Because you’re constantly dealing with a child who is emotionally out in left field. If you can find a way to avoid that child getting into emotional left field, you’re that much more ahead of the game.
Dianne
And do you teach this? This is a great segue into kind of like, where can people find you and find more about your program? So, can you tell us a little bit about your program in dealing with the different personalities, different parenting styles, different people?
You know, can you talk to us a little bit about what you do in your program and how do you help families?
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The Role of Facilitators in the SNAP Program
Ron Swan
First and foremost, we don’t teach. The people who work in the program are facilitators, and there’s a reason we use that particular term. We don’t sit in front of families and lecture them. We get families to discuss some of the things that they do, as well as giving them some of the ideas that we have through the program itself.
Often, parents learn as much from other parents as they do from us. Understanding that they’re not alone, is a big part of why the program is as successful as it is.
The Power of Community in Parenting
A lot of parents that have children with behavioral issues spend a lot of time isolated in their homes. They can’t get babysitters, they don’t want to go out to a restaurant or to a movie theater because they’re afraid of their children’s behavior.
So they feel very isolated. Understanding that they’re not isolated, that they’re not alone, can be epiphanous for a lot of parents. And the fact is one of the biggest side benefits of the program is it creates social connections. A lot of these parents end up becoming friends, you know, the babysitting for each other or going out to dinner together or backyard barbecues. It’s a big part of why the program is as successful as it is. And it’s because the program is based more in a positive approach as opposed to a negative one. Because we know, that individuals learn more when they’re working towards something as opposed to working away from something.
Dianne
Yeah. I love it. I love, love, love everything that you’re saying here. And because you’re helping so many people kind of like help each other, help themselves and create that community and that support group at the same time. You know, letting them know you’re not alone here. There’s so many people in the same, like, juice as you versions of it. Right?
How to Join the SNAP Program
So in your program, where are you located and how can people find your program and be part of your program?
Debbie St-Martin
I knew that was going to come.
Dianne
It’s for Debbie.
Debbie St-Martin
We are located in Pierrefonds but we also do virtual groups for those
who can’t get to us. The groups are usually 13 weeks long. Parents are in the group, children are in another separate group.
There’s a couple of sessions that we all get together that we can practice what we’ve learned through the parents. And the kids get to practice what they’ve learned as well. So every week we talk about different subjects. We talk about bullying. We talk about dealing with anger.
The object is we’re helping the children find better ways to manage their emotions. What is their emotion? How to understand them? How to deal with them? How to make better plans in life? And for the parents, it’s how do we communicate better with our children? How can we make changes at home that will affect the children, not just at home, but in school and in the community?
So, to get to us you can go on our website, www.centrefamille.com. Under programs, there’s a SNAP program, and it talks a bit about our SNAP program. SNAP also is a program that belongs to the Child Development Institute in Toronto. So you get to see a little bit about what they are as well. And you can register directly online with the program and somebody contacts you and we start the process.
Dianne
That’s amazing.
The Impact of the SNAP Program on Families
And how many families approximately have you helped over the years? How long have you been in, in business right now?
Debbie St-Martin
SNAP, the first group started in September 2015.
Dianne
In Pierrefonds.
Debbie St-Martin
Yeah, we’ve always been in Pierrefonds, Saint- Geneviève. But now we’re Pierrefonds near Sources. We have served almost 500 families that have gone through the program since we started. Our success rate, we don’t call it a success rate, because, really, it depends on whether or not the parent makes the changes that they want to do.
The Importance of Small Changes in Parenting
But the feedback that we get from the parents is that they realize that small changes make big differences, and that’s a big thing.
And as Ron had said before, you start talking with families that are dealing with the same situations as you are. So, you know you’re not alone, but once you’ve gone through the program, you realize, ‘I’m not alone.’ You can see it at the table at the group where a parent will say something and another parent goes,” I have that same problem!‘ Yep, that’s the way it is. So small changes make big differences.
So, unfortunately we have a waiting list. We have to be honest about that. I have to tell people that it could be a year’s waiting list. But that can also change because the groups are either boys or girls, French or English. They also go by age. So we’re not going to put a six year old and an 11 year old in the same group. They don’t learn the same way. So you may be the last one on the list but depends on what age group that we’re opening, you may end up higher up on the list. So don’t take the one year as a deterrent not to register.
Ron Swan
There’s probably something else we should mention too. One of the biggest benefits of the program is the fact that it’s not a case of, you know, 13 weeks. ‘Good luck. We’ll see you soon‘. As soon as a parent becomes part of the family, shall we say, we will, you know, there’s school advocacy, there’s crisis management, crisis intervention. Sometimes there’s, you know, a shoulder to cry on. And that happens before they start the program, while we’re doing the paperwork with the family.
But also, once the program is over, we’re asking families to make life changing decisions, lifestyle changes. So expecting that to happen in 13 weeks, would not be a possibility. So we stay with the family until the child turns 18 , in case there’s any issues.
And I mean, we still have families that, you know, from the first few years that we did the program that call us, you know, sometimes to have a coffee, sometimes to cry so that they can cry on our shoulders sometimes because, they’ve been called into a school meeting where they’re sick and tired of having to sit across from 11 professionals, who are telling them what they should and shouldn’t do.
And they don’t feel comfortable with that. So having somebody to sit beside them makes a huge difference. That’s a big bonus to the program.
Dianne
Absolutely. My gosh, wow! It’s like, you guys are so needed. This program is so needed. How, how do we make this available to more parents?
The Challenges of Expanding the SNAP Program
What needs to happen so this is almost like available to a lot more cities and communities?
Debbie St-Martin
It’s a double edged sword. Because, yes, we want to communicate it and, and, you know, we want to share this with everybody, but at the same time, we don’t have the funding to do it.
So that’s a big issue that we’re continuously fighting for. We don’t have the full funding that we needed to be able to run it on a bigger scale. We are crossing our fingers that there’s some funding coming in. We don’t know yet. We are continuously meeting with schools. We are going to schools to present to the whole school uh, employees, to make them aware of what we are.
Stay on track with laundry & tips to getting the kids involved
So that we do get a lot of referrals from schools. You know, they have issues and they want to do something. We get a lot of referrals from CLSC, social workers, hea lth professionals more and more so. But most of our referrals come from word of mouth, Google, social media. That has become now the biggest thing.
Dianne
So hopefully this podcast will be even more out there because I find that what you and your program is doing is so needed right when you were explaining situations, examples and everything else. There’s so many different families and, you know, things that you see, in life that I was like, yeah, yeah, I see that happening here, here, here, and here. And it’s like, make this bigger.
Ron Swan
One thing I can tell you is one of the most appreciated comments that we’ve gotten frequently from parents or families that we’ve dealt with is that this shouldn’t be a program for families that have children with, you know, behavioral issues. This should be a program for parents and families, period.
Look, the old saying is it takes a village to raise a child. Well, basically the program is a way to develop that village so that we attack the problems from the same page. You asked me earlier about how, to develop the ability in your child to, to adapt at school, at home. Well, this is how we do it is finding a common thread that we can all work on.
Dianne
I really hope, if anybody’s listening to the podcast, that you are someone who can help Centre Famille and the SNAP Program. Or you know, someone who knows someone who can completely help hundreds, maybe even thousands of families to make a difference in this world, that is the contribution to making this world a better place.
It pretty much starts in the home and it starts with, with our listeners and with you guys. Like, thank you so much for helping this community and helping families. It just benefits us all : who you’re speaking with, like at the grocery store, at the school meetings. You know, maybe their children are part of your program and, you know, you, your relationships are just stronger because of the program and we don’t even know that and, and it doesn’t matter. It’s just, we’re trying to put better people out there and your program is kind of like the answer.
Ron Swan
It’s probably important to mention that this is an evidence based program. Which means we have the data that proves that it works. And the fact is, it’s a Canadian program. It started here in Canada 38 years ago, but now it’s international. It’s all over the world.
Dianne
Wow!
Ron Swan
So people understand that the affect of the program is families that are functioning more constructively. Yeah, so we do hope that this is something that will help, you know, somebody see and say, you know what, we need to do something.
Dianne
Yes. Yes. Yes.
The Personal Impact of the SNAP Program
Well, I had rapid fire questions, for both of you guys. All right? So whoever wants to answer or both of you, it’s fine. Uh, what’s your favorite thing to do with your kids as parents?
Ron Swan
I’ll answer that one. My child said to me a little while ago that they were looking forward to bedtime. With my first granddaughter who came around the 7th of October last year. I’m sorry the year before. Because it was an opportunity to share the way we had shared when he was younger. That I would tell parents is important. Remember that it’s not just about the trip to Disney World. It’s the little things that count.
Dianne
Love it, love it. Very good. Well it kind of ties into that, but what is the best thing your adult kids have ever said to you? So Ron, you already took that example. Debbie, do you have another?
Debbie St-Martin
… and it happened not too long ago for that matter, thanking me for giving him the sharing what I do in my jobs. It has helped him in his own job working, coming along, because I’m dragging my kids to all of my jobs. I’ve worked for the community for over 30 years. And it has helped him in his job when he had to deal with a difficult client. And he remembered, like, what we had done, and he called me and asked me, ‘where do I call?‘, ‘What do I do?’ And then to have his boss say, ‘ How did you know to do this?‘ ‘My mom‘. So you walk into the bank and the boss comes up to you, because he’s a bank worker, and the manager comes up and says, ’thank you. You did a good job‘.
Dianne
Wow. Wow. Awesome. Oh my God. That’s very heartwarming. Both of these stories that you guys, I love this personal stuff that you give. It’s so, um, you know, it makes everything so human and it’s not so tac tac tac tac tac, ta tac, tac, you know?
My final one is, you probably answered this before, but maybe you have another story. What’s a favorite thing that a family has said or experienced with you guys?
Debbie St-Martin
That it has changed their life?
Ron Swan
I would say that when a parent comes to you at the beginning of the program, telling you that they are afraid to go home after work. And then after the program, or a couple of years after the program, when they tell you how much they enjoy spending time with their children? That’s the difference.
Dianne
Wow. Look at like, I had shivers and I had tear, like come in just like from the beginning. Oh my God. Okay.
Conclusion: The Future of the SNAP Program
My goodness. Wow. Ron, Debbie, thank you so much for, for all of this and your knowledge. So the website and your handles and everything that will be all included in today’s show notes. It’ll be promoted on, on social media.
So, yeah, everybody can contact you and hopefully the people who do contact you will give you exactly what you need in, in helping to grow this program.
Debbie We just hired a new person that’s going to take on that stuff.
Dianne Yay! Yay! Yay! Growing, growing, growing!! One step at a time. One little action at a time can make big differences, just exactly like what you said. All right? So thank you very much, Debbie and Ron for being here. You have given so much already in this, I don’t know how long we’ve been recording for, but it’s going to help so many families and I truly wish for success for both of you guys and the program. It’s going to change this world. All right. So thank you so much.
Debbie
Thank you.
Ron Thank you. Appreciate the time and the opportunity.
Dianne We’ll talk soon. Thank you So, much.
Debbie Take care.
Dianne Take care. Bye, guys.
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